The truth behind gas prices
October 31, 2007 · Print This Article
I get sick of the MSM and their attitude behind gas prices. They want to blame the War, they blame tensions with Iran, but truth is that the environmental movement and government regulation are the reason that gas prices are $3.00 now (higher is some areas) and they will continue to climb.
Now not completely blameless are paranoid commodities traders who panic every time someone sneezes in the middle east. They are driving up prices around the world but that is a minor compared to what the environmental idiots, both in and out of government, have done for the last 31 years.
Most people don’t realize that we could probably import 25% more oil than we do today and it would have no effect on the price at the pump. Many ask how can that be, and the truth is that we have not built a refinery in 31 years. Think back to 1976, everyone was starting to build cars that use less gas, the environmental movement was just starting to use the scare tactics that they are so famous for today.
This Congress and this President need to get serious about this issue and we need to do away with 90% of the regulation involved in building refineries. We need government to stop listening to the chicken little’s that are the environmental movement. The sky is not falling, and these people have not been right about anything for the last 31 years.
After we solve the issue of refineries then we can argue about where we get oil from and why we should be doing more drilling off our shores and on our own soil but right now it doesn’t make any difference.
So the next time some idiot in a Prius cuts you off thank them for high gas prices because odds are they support environmental groups that are the main reason for why the price of gas is so high!
I Agree especially with the fact that most people thing that importing more oil alone will case the price to drop. We do need more refinery’s. Another thing that affects the price is the current tax code, which has driven the buying power of the u.s. dollar down on the world market.
goto http://forum.irsfreeamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=8
to read my point of veiw. If you would like to join the discussion, feel free to join, absolutly free.
I would also like to share link to information.
thanks.
Chris,
We have beat the FairTax issue to death here. I believe it is a flawed plan, there is too much government in the plan, it another method on redistributing wealth for the left.
Now I support the premise of a comsumption based tax but as long as it includes prebates and doesn’t exempt food and medicine I won’t support it.
Brandon,
You say that there is too much govenment in the Fairtax plan. Have you seen how much government is in the current plan. Just look at the pages. The fairtax plan about 130 pages the current tax plan 17,000+ pages. The fairtax is a consumption based plan with prebates. It doesn’t exempt food or medicine. It just give every tax payer a $250mo prebate. Also another advantage of the Fairtax is the fact that even greencard or Illegals will then have to pay tax if they buy anything in this country.
Like I have stated many times before, I am not opposed to a consumption based system, just not the FairTax plan. You must exempt food and medicine and eliminate this ridiculous idea of a prebate. The prebate amounts to government taking more of your hard earned money and then doling out what it thinks you deserve. It puts too much money in the hands of the government and then we are relying on the government to graciously give some of it back every month.
This is not conservative, this is not federalism, this is more government and I will not support this plan unless there are drastic changes to it.
Brandon,
Don’t support the FairTax. That’s your choice. I only wish you understood the whys and wherefores of the FairTax abit better. People trying to change 11 years of research don’t help anything.
Brandon
Don’t have such a closed mind against the FT just because you think a few things are bad with it. If we keep opposing this legislation as you do we will continue to be stuck with the current system iwhich penalyzes productivity and limits earnings while creating a large tax gap we all pay for. Open your mind to the FT, it is the very best legislation out there. The prebate and taxing of food and medicine needs to happen to keep the tax fair and revenue neutral. Why start exempting things? Then we wind up with the same mess we are in now! 65,000 pages of jumble and mess that keeps growing! Open up your mind, try the FT, and let’s see how much better it is.
Rich,
As I have stated I am not opposed to a consumption based tax. I will go even further and say that I think a consumption based system would be the most equitable way to tax. I am not a big fan of taxing necessities like food and medicine but I might be able to even get past that. Please understand, I am a conservative, I believe in less government, less taxes, strong national defense, etc. We need to start finding ways in this country to get rid of bloated federal programs that penalize individuals for the benefit of others less willing work or unwilling to plan for their future.
The prebate portion of this plan is a bad idea; it puts too much power in the hands of government. How much does everyone get in the prebate, how is it calculated? Based on the size of the household, congress will determine how much of your money you are entitled to get back from the government to cover basic necessities for a given month. Explain to me how this program will work different than the failed Social Security program? When congress needs to spend money what prevents them from raising the percentage, BTW I think that 23% is way too high, what prevents congress from reducing the prebate amount, or raising it for certain groups.
There needs to be something that reigns in spending. Just giving the government endless amounts of revenue when economic times are good doesn’t work for me. I would like to see a sliding rate that adjusts year by year that limits growth in government revenue to increases no more than the rate of inflation and possibly less.
In addition I believe that we need to fully repeal the 16th amendment but that it should be replaced with a consumption based system that locks in the sliding scale for federal rates and further bars any other taxation on an individual’s income, or property, thus forcing states to deal with their confiscatory tax problems as well.
Rich and Tom, please don’t misunderstand I want to see the tax issue in this country fixed as much as anyone but I don’t believe this is the answer. There are many things about the plan I do like, but unfortunately when it means giving more power to the federal government it means that I can’t accept the good and the bad.
Brandon,
Your mind has been dulled to accept gummint meddling, therefore you fail to understand the liberating aspects of the FairTax.
The ‘prebate’ is universal and it tied to the “poverty” level. Its purpose is to untax the poor at the level of sustainance, no more, no less. Once the minimums are met then the individual is free to work as hard as they wish to either accumulate more wealth (sans taxes) or to increase their consumption and pay the taxes on that largess.
Mathematically, the prebate behaves like the personal exemption, except better:
The poor are completely untaxed, and in actuality the very poor benefit by having the prebate $$$ available to meet needs.
The working middle class benefit in that their net tax rate only rises to 11% up to ~ 2x the poverty level, and yet every dollar they choose to save is untaxed, and earns tax free, so a little thrift drops their effective tax rate towards 5-6% or lower.
The upper middle class is going to consume all they “need” and then some more, conspicuously, and every dollar of that will be at the 23% rate. Their effective rate will tend towards the 17-18% and the ‘happier’ they spend the closer to 23% it goes.
The wealthy, will consume so much that the prebate will have so little effect as to be meaningless. There aren’t so many wealthy folks that it would be a huge fed budget issue either. The effective rate will hit the 23% in the early part of the year, ant stay that way. The Mercedes will add $20k+ to the treasury, and the yacht another 1/4 million $$$. Are you suggesting they aren’t paying their way?
How about all the off the books $$$ that’s spent every day. If it goes toward consumption it gets taxed. Drug $$$, “illegal” labor (they gotta eat), all the stuff that the gummint is doing so well at controlling today(NOT) will find it’s way onto the tax roles.
And savings… we save for the future, why, to be able to consume it eventually. Why not let the $$$ work at maximum capacity rather than let the gummint siphon off the cream every year? Eventually the $$$ gets spent, or it continues to be saved and create new wealth, we are a capitalist society aren’t we?
There are 2 types of opponents to the FairTax: Those with an agenda, like tax accountants, IRS agents, lobbyists, lawyers, etc.
The other are folks that lack self confidence. People that fear that competing on a level playing field puts them at a disadvantage…
Finally, your conclusion that the FairTax gives the gummint more power is totally wrong! It’s bad logic, faulty thought processes. It is jingoistic propaganda though. Wake up!
The FairTax will take power from the gov and give it back to the people. No longer will the government simply seize wages, compensation, earnings from every honest American worker! You have no say, no input, you are a faceless number. When you control the cask you can choose to spend wisely, and simply meet needs and save the balance, sending a signal to gummint that you do not approve. Or you can spend lavishly. paying the higher taxes, telling the Congress that you feel they are doing a fine job…
But the choice will be yours and mine, not theirs any longer!
Support the FairTax!!!
Brandon,
The Prebate is simply per person and the only criterion is legal citizenship.
There are no calculations, no groups, no disparity at all. Americans will see what their gummint is doing every month. Let your congressman vote to cut the prebate or raise the tax rate and see how long he keeps his job…
It’s inevitable that rate changes will come, but they will be far more obvious.
Where we do agree is that federal spending is way out of control!!!
The other *huge* advantage of the FairTax it the diminished cost of compliance. It may be hard for you to believe but the Income Tax absorbs and wastes 0.3% of GDP. The FairTax will reduce that waste by a factor of 10 or more.
The boost to the US economy in the global economy will make the boom times of the 50’s & 60’s look like the bread lines & rationing of the 30’s & 40’s by comparison.
Instead of trying to get a larger slice of the pie the FairTax makes the pie larger, benefiting everyone.
Ok the poor are not completely untaxed, they pay the rates like everyone else. My main opposition to this plan is the prebate. It is completely unnecessary to make every adult dependent on a government check every month. We have too many people dependent on government as it is. As to the benefits of a consumption based tax yes it removes most of the problems with our current tax system. Yes the rich will continue to pay almost all the taxes in this country because they consume more.
As for there being two kinds of people opposed to the FairTax I disagree. Yes there are entire groups who stand to lose, IRS, Accountants, Tax Lawyers, etc. Yes perhaps there are those that believe a level playing field puts them at a disadvantage. However my opposition to it doesn’t fall into either category, in fact I stand to gain personally if it is implemented. No my opposition is based solely on the big picture and my belief that government is too large, too many people depend on it now, and I don’t think that giving every adult a check every month is going to reduce that.
I am not sold that there will be this huge boost to the economy. In fact I suspect it will lead to a short term recession because most people will not understand why they suddenly have to pay this huge sales tax. Don’t get me wrong I still think in general it is the right thing to do long term but it will not be this big economic boom right away.
Those supporters of the FairTax are entitled to their opinion. It seems though that they aren’t willing to listen to others suggestions. It’s basically a take it or leave it mentality with this plan, either we accept everything in it or we’re somehow to blame. This can be done based on a consumption based system, and it can be done without a tax rate of 23% and it can be done without a prebate. The prebate is a mechanism of control exercised by congress and I am not willing to accept that.
Brandon
I support the Fair tax but the prebate bothers me to. I’m open to other ideas.
Without the prebate, the Fair tax would be horribly regressive. The only way I can think of to remove the prebate program and keep the Fair tax progressive would be to make each and every consumer pay a different rate (only what they owe) at every point of sale. I suppose this could be done with a personalized “national tax card”. You would have to obtain this card from either a state or federal agency, possibly your state DMV since they have cameras and issue IDs. To prevent identity theft and abuse, it would probably need to have your name and photo on it. You would likely have to present it along with your state ID so that cashiers can make sure the card is your card. The tax card would have a magnetic strip on it and the cashier would just slide this card through the register before scanning your items and it would tell the register whether you owe any tax and, if so, how much. Then, after you pay, you get a receipt showing how much tax you paid.
If you don’t have a tax card, or you forget it to bring it with you, I suppose you should have to pay the full tax rate by default. But, if you pay the full tax rate on a purchase because you didn’t have your tax card with you at the time, you should be able to bring the receipt back to the store with your tax card and get a cash refund.
How would that be?
Thanks Zod for your comments. I don’t believe there is need for a prebate to make a consumption based system work. For the purpose of this discussion let’s leave food and medicine on the table and just tax everything. I believe the principles behind system still work if you reduce the rate to roughly 18% - 20%. You do have to eliminate all other forms of taxation at the federal level, income, personal, corporate, gas, etc. Removing all these other factors will drive the cost of goods lower.
So what are you left with? You are left with a simple system where people are not dependant on the government for a check every month, the government maintains the flow of money into the treasury for congress to spend on their pet social programs and the people have less government in their lives.
Negatives, we will have thousands of unemployed IRS workers who will be on unemployment endlessly because there are no other jobs for people like that. We still have no system that limits the rate at which government can grow and offers no incentives to reduce it.
It is my belief that the prebate is simply in this plan so that congress can maintain its power over people. There is no need for it otherwise; there is no sane reason to increase the rate so as to give a small portion back to those who “deserve it”.
Its been a while since I visited this site. I don’t really feel like spending the time trying to convince the world about the benefits of the fair tax. However, I would like to add another idea of mine on the reason of high gas prices. It seems that the liberal agenda has in many ways caused there to be a artificial shortage of crude oil. Laws and restrictive legislation brought on by liberalism has caused this country to look to other country’s for our energy needs. We as Americans can not afford to weaken our economic power in the world by continuing to be non energy independent. We must change current laws and legislation so that our own oil company’s can drill for more of our own oil with in our borders and surrounding waters. Further we need to relax regulations on the building of new refineries so that the new supply of oil can be converted to gas, diesel, and other fuels. This needs to be done with the same American Resolve and expedience that derived us to the moon during the space race. In a effort to not sound like a liberal. I further believe in research that will lead to viable alternative fuels. Bio fuels are a scam, don’t think of a second that I’m one of those corn for gas idiots. It makes no since to use a valuable food commodity like corn and use more energy converting it to a usable fuel then we will get out of the final product. I’m all for solar, wind, and hydro. We must use these as a addition to oil for our energy needs. As a country our economy is powered by energy mostly from oil. We must not sacrifice our economy, our way of life, and most of all our safety in a effort to be a light footed environmental friendly occupant of this world. We must look past this notion that our actions in this world are somehow un natural. Sure recycling,
minimizing consumption, and treading softly is a noble idea, but we need to realize that we are the dominant being on this small earth, we are the alpha male. Only GOD, Christ, and the Holy Spirit is above us.